Attack oF The cLONES

This was taken from a blog, and though it doesn’t have deal with Ministry directly, it does hit upon them; one might even say that it echoes some of Jourgensen’s expressed views. In any regard, thought I would thorw this up towards all of you as some food for thought.

Attack Of The Clones

MARCH MARCH MARCH

Can you hear that?

MARCH MARCH MARCH

It’s the sound of marching clones.

Industrial, a genre, that if one were to ask some of members of the genre’s (arguably) founding group (Throbbing Gristle) began and died with Throbbing Gristle. But as with most labels, things tend to stick around as long as critics want to claim something exist, and so perhaps this is why there has been this element called “indsutrial” ever still, and for whatever reason, it has been within this beast called “industrial” that the most interesting of musical genres has been found (at least for me).

The largest reasons behind this would lie in the amount of diversity found within the genre and working perhaps in tandem with this, the amount of innovation that sprouted from the genre.
(for example, take Consilidated, Sheep On Drugs, Dead Voices On Air, Skinny Puppy, Ministry, and VNV Nation, and you have 6 really independently sounding things)

Much like other musical genres of the “now” however, this once innovative juggernaut seems to have slowed it’s pace. I believe this to be espically evident within the area often reffered to as “EBM” (Electronic Body Music).

As stands, I look at much of industrial now, and it reminds me of just about every other musical genre out there…that is in that I can’t really tell the difference between one band to the next. Assemblage 23 might as well be VNV Nation as far as I’m concerned. That is, musically, you’re basically dealing with things that are very formulaic. You can typically rest assured that you’ll be greeted with one song after the next that is propelled by a 4/4 beat structure and timing, that you will be greeted with an entourage of analouge synth type bass lines and leads, that these bass lines and leads will be much along the lines that one may have experienced during the hey day of new wavish synth-pop and/or what is to be found in “progressive” house/trance. You can sit and rest assured that you’ll have “depressive” lyrical topics full of goth poetic vigor. And on and on it goes…

This is perhaps a bit stranger than what one may find when dealing with what currently lies on the billboard top 40 in that well, if not the artist themselves, at least the bulk of the people that comprise the listening audience of this genre tend to be people that lay great claim to their “independent thinking”, their embrace of “themselves” as opposed to their “conformic” embrace of a group. And yet, like the other more “mainstream” masses out there, you can still find that they tend dress in a similar attire (uniform), and propell the use of “tried and true” music formulas over the idea of musical exploration.

So from drum n bass to industrial to “alternative” to metal

MARCH MARCH MARCH

THE CLONES MARCH ON.

Many a record exec currently bashes on the problems (supposedly) caused by downloading music. I would liken this "supposed’ problem to be nothing but an illusion however, as the fact of the matter is we’ve been dealing with essientially various forms of downloading for years. Today it’s downloading, yesterday it was dubbing tapes for friends, and on and on it goes. Closer to point of fact, I would liken any kind of musical depression not so much to downloading, but to the fact that music as a whole has become rather boring.

The “mainstream” has always stuck with a more conservative approach to music. That is to say, rather than propell new forms, it caters to forms that have already shown themselves capable of being commercially successful.
So it’s normally been within the more “underground” circuits that one would have to turn in order to actually find what was new and even to catch glimpses of what the mainstream would later be like.
To a large degree, this is still how things work, what’s interesting about todays “underground” however (specifically, within the United States) is that it’s innovative efforts seem to have come to a crawl.
Rather than issuing forth a barrage of artist that seem to carry an “arts for arts sake” approach, an approach that purposely attempts to go for raw emotional expressivness and/or artistic creation over emulation, like the “mainstream”, it’s been pumping out a rather large amount of artist who’s main goal seems to be retintion of the “good ol days” through emulation of the “underground” artist that comprised the good ol days. I can not say that I understand why this is occurring. (i.e. take a look at the “Orlando” breaks area to see a darn fine example of this in action)

I remember when I began learning guitar, I purposely strayed from even attempting to learn covers. Favorite artist of mine or not, I had no interest in learning how to play YOUR song. The philosophy was simple, my interest did not lie in being able to re-create what some one else had already created, but rather to see birth to my own creations.

Don’t get me wrong, everything has it’s place. At times it takes an innovator to come up with an idea, to lay down the ground work for a new area(s) that may be covered. It then often takes emulators, people that decide to work within a forlayed framework, to begin seeing where this new framework may go. In deed, often times innovators quickly become emulators! That is to say, innovators of a style, rather than immediately seeking to push past what they just created, stay within the realm they have established/helped established and begin to see how far exactly they can push that realm.

I’ll give Skinny Puppy as an example…a group that helped innovate a musical form starting back in 84 and then remained steadfast within that realm until arguably 1994! As far as I’m concerned, it was not until Last Rights (Puppy’s 92 album) or arguably The Eyes Of Stanley Pain (a Download album that hit in the mid 90s) that those that comprised Skinny Puppy finally began to work in an area other than that which they had helped coin back in 84 with their original Back & Forth release. OVER 20 YEARS WITHIN THE SAME FRAMEWORK!

Simarlarly, Ministry hit up Land of Rape in Honey circa 87-88, with the first 3 tracks of the album really coming to lay the foundation down (arguably) for industrial-metal. They continued to work within that framework all the way up to the current day! (Though I’ll note since '92, they really haven’t pushed the genre that much farther).

And to that end, we have peopel like Front Line Assembly, who took the Puppy model, and then took the time to see where they could push that model to.

And on and on it goes.

So it is not that I am saying emulation is TOTALLY bad, but more so, that when in over abundance (which I currently think it is) it is. It’s a lot like the value of the dollar in regard to economics, over flood the market with money, and you’re going to have inflation; that is to say, a decrease in the value of the dollar. Over flood the music market with to much of the same thing, and you’ll have a similar effect, things become stale and people won’t appreciate it as much.

So to those oh so scared about how downloading is taking away from the music industry, I say
“FEAR NOT!”
It’s not the downloading where in your big problem lies, but the fact that you’re attempting to sale stale and over produced product. You’re dealing with depreciated value, not theft.

Now, it’s normally been the artist dedicated to art for arts sake that alleviate us of this problem. But, as formentioned, the numbers comprising such people seem to be dwindling…in there place, a rise of people all concerned with how well they can present a pre-existant formula. So we have a barrage of electro-clash artist, essientially re-doing what was done by new wave(synth-pop) in the early to mid 80s, jungle/drum n bass streamlining it’s rhythmic presentation, sounds of bass, and even presentation (how many rewinds can you predict at a dnb event nowadays?), and on and on it goes.

There’s still artist propelling things forward, and actually, in pretty decent number (when one starts looking outside the U.S.)…but that’s besides the point…

'cmon people…who gives a fuck if it’s not going to get you popularity…I mean, it’s supposed to be about “art” isn’t it?


93 93/93

www.twenty3.tk

Very good article and I think I agree with it almost completely. The only thing that I disgree with/find problematic is something that doesnt actually have a huge effect on the whole argument that the author of the article is tryint to make, that is - that innovation comes from artists doing things for art’s sake. I disagree with this since innovation actually comes out of inspiration and inspiration can come from anywhere, not only the world of art.

since innovation actually comes out of inspiration and inspiration can come from anywhere, not only the world of art.

I’d agree with you in that inspiration can come from anywhere, and I’m not sure this article is really saying that it only comes from the world of art…more so that if anything, there has been a large tendency to keep inspiration restrained in order that a final product works within a predetermined framework as opposed to just letting that inspiration guide the artist wherever they may go (thus, SOMETIMES leading to more original sounding material).

He had me for everything but the part about VNV Nation and Assemblage 23. I don’t even own any VNV Nation CDs and I only have maybe 1/3 of A23s material and I can guarantee you that I could tell which one is which listening to a blind sample. Assemblage 23 is much less “goth” than he made the whole genre out to be and much more of an intelligent electro sound. I can understand the concept of bands playing similar styles but if you have such a huge problem with that what are you going to do, like one rock band, one industrial band, one electronic band, etc? To a certain extent you have to accept that not everything in your CD tower is going to sound completely different from what is next to it. You learn to love the subtle nuances even within similar sounding material or you’ll spend way too much time hunting for something “new” (to yourself) and not enough time just enjoying the music in front of you.

Whoever wrote this article hasn’t been keeping up with industrial at all. They forgot to mention the one-band industrial Renaissance that is Wolf Eyes.

And no…Wolf Eyes are not really a noise band. Their songs do have structure and repetition. Indeed, they are a Throbbing Gristle for the 2000’s with far better instrumentation/sonic innovation and far worse lyrics.

Fuck EBM and all this silly wannabee Goth Trance. That shit no longer has any association with industrial in my mind…it’s become its own sad little uninspired genre, perfectly accessible and hardly challenging to anyone. This fuckin New aggro-dance shit that you find on Cleopatra and Metropolis is NOT industrial in the least.

Don’t get me wrong…I do enjoy Aghast View, The Retrosic’s ‘God of Hell’ CD as well as some Razed in Black stuff, but people need to stop finding a connection between this shit and industrial that just isn’t there.

I think Skinny Puppy, Cabaret Voltaire and the like represent the closest true industrial can come to dance music.

Bands like VNV Nation, Aghast View,
Hocico, Apoptygma Berzerk, Die Form, God Module, Haujobb, Velvet Acid Christ, Cubanate, Electric Helfire Club, Funker Vogt, :Wumpscutt: (from what I’ve heard), even Front Line Assembly and Front 242…they cross the line into EBM/electro/hard dance territory for the most part and have no business being called industrial. KMFDM is another band I have trouble even considering as an industrial group.

The only reason these guys are called industrial is because they have distorted vocals and their beats are harder/more pounding than your average techno crap. They might have looped guitar riffs over the beats, but the overall feel is still that of dance music. Therefore I’d call them aggro-dance.

I think that genres like noise and so-called experimental have way more to do with real industrial than this aggro-dance shit does. Another band that seems quite industrial in the pure sense is The Sightings if anyone has heard of them.

Oh, and Lou Reed started industrial with ‘Metal Machine Music’, even if the genre had no name at that time. Period. This album proves why noise is so much more related to industrial than this dance bullshit.

Trying to claim that TG started industrial is like saying Bauhaus started goth rock. TG was the first band to embody and embrace all the characteristics of industrial, but the foundation was already laid down by Reed in my opinion, much like The Doors and Bowie laid the foundation for goth.

Feel free to rip me apart on this one.

There’s still artist propelling things forward, and actually, in pretty decent number (when one starts looking outside the U.S.)

So it is not that I am saying emulation is TOTALLY bad, but more so, that when in over abundance (which I currently think it is) it is. It’s a lot like the value of the dollar in regard to economics, over flood the market with money, and you’re going to have inflation; that is to say, a decrease in the value of the dollar. Over flood the music market with to much of the same thing, and you’ll have a similar effect, things become stale and people won’t appreciate it as much.

So o.k., I’m not looking to support this write up as much as I am to make sure what I saw it saying is that same as what others are seeing.

To this effect, there is NO mention that artist aren’t around that are seeking to simply create rather than replicate (though replication of a sort may at times be a coincidental by product of where inspiration leads them to go at times).

As far as things like WHO started industrial and all of that, really, I don’t think that has anything to do with the point of the write up. Such things may be discussed to infinity…

Who started punk rock?
(that question is to make a point, please don’t bother answering it).

So as I see it, the real main points of this are:

  1. Within the genre that is called “industrial” (largely BY MUSIC CRITICS) there seems to have been a lack of innovation/inspiration lately.

  2. This lack of innovation does not stop at industrial, and can be found in a variety of music genere’s that tend to tout themselves as being “underground”.

  3. An over abundance of replication in regard to music formulas established by past artist has helped lead to a lack of appreciation by the public in regards to music being made available. Thus lower record sale numbers, attendance at club/venues, etc.

  4. There is a good number of artist out there that are not following this mode of replication, but none the less, they are in a minority in both mainstream and underground circuits.

Fuck EBM and all this silly wannabee Goth Trance. That shit no longer has any association with industrial in my mind…it’s become its own sad little uninspired genre, perfectly accessible and hardly challenging to anyone. This fuckin New aggro-dance shit that you find on Cleopatra and Metropolis is NOT industrial in the least.

Couldn’t agree more.

And no…Wolf Eyes are not really a noise band. Their songs do have structure and repetition. Indeed, they are a Throbbing Gristle for the 2000’s with far better instrumentation/sonic innovation and far worse lyrics.

You need to hear more of their stuff then. Lots of their stuff is just live jams made on the spot. Those aren’t on the main releases though, usually the limited ones that are made in really small editions. But yeah, they do have a lot more structure compared to a lot of other noise acts.

And I agree with all that other stuff you said.

I thought “industrial” got its name from bands that were sampling metallic or industrial sounds (e.g., “Over the Shoulder” or DM’s “Stripped” come to mind) in the mid-1980s thanks to the sprouting sampling technology and then sequencing these samples via computer-based rhythm programming like the Fairlight CMI and Synclavier.

I thought “industrial” got its name from bands that were sampling metallic or industrial sounds (e.g., “Over the Shoulder” or DM’s “Stripped” come to mind) in the mid-1980s thanks to the sprouting sampling technology and then sequencing these samples via computer-based rhythm programming like the Fairlight CMI and Synclavier.

no, it was Throbbing Gristle’s record label.

Well in my opinion industrial started with Lou Reed’s ‘Metal Machine Music’ via its exploration of dissonant feedback, distortion, atonality and sonic experimentation. These characteristics are as much fundamentals to industrial as are the metallic noises/factory samples.

Indeed, a lot of Throbbing Gristle’s material is more about the sonic experimentation and repetitive, almost numbing atonality. More in the vein of Lou Reed and this so-called “Noise” genre that I insist is far more “industrial” than a lot of what is labeled as such now.

Einsturzende Nuebauten strikes me as the band you’d most look to for the clanging factory noises (although in Nuebauten’s case there was far more actual clanging and use of real industrial tools than there was sampling).

Another good example of the more literal factory type industrial shit would be early Laibach. They definitely did more sampling than TG or EN, who usually generated their own sounds to the best of my knowledge (although I know TG used a lot of recorded dialogue snippets).

But yeah industrial existed before groups in the eighties were able to sample and then use those mechanical sounds. That’s why it was so cool…the crazy noises were actually made before the audience’s eyes once upon a time. Wish I was there to see it…

Oh, and isn’t that another reason “noise” is so much more industrial than the aforementioned aggro-dance…or even “industrial metal” for that matter. With some of the bands, you have people constructing their own gadgets, generating their own noises on the spot. Not some keyboards doing synths and samples over what is essentially heavy metal (recent Ministry anyone?)

Well in my opinion industrial started with Lou Reed’s ‘Metal Machine Music’ via its exploration of dissonant feedback, distortion, atonality and sonic experimentation. These characteristics are as much fundamentals to industrial as are the metallic noises/factory samples.

Indeed, a lot of Throbbing Gristle’s material is more about the sonic experimentation and repetitive, almost numbing atonality. More in the vein of Lou Reed and this so-called “Noise” genre that I insist is far more “industrial” than a lot of what is labeled as such now.

Einsturzende Nuebauten strikes me as the band you’d most look to for the clanging factory noises (although in Nuebauten’s case there was far more actual clanging and use of real industrial tools than there was sampling).

Another good example of the more literal factory type industrial shit would be early Laibach. They definitely did more sampling than TG or EN, who usually generated their own sounds to the best of my knowledge (although I know TG used a lot of recorded dialogue snippets).

But yeah industrial existed before groups in the eighties were able to sample and then use those mechanical sounds. That’s why it was so cool…the crazy noises were actually made before the audience’s eyes once upon a time. Wish I was there to see it…

Oh, and isn’t that another reason “noise” is so much more industrial than the aforementioned aggro-dance…or even “industrial metal” for that matter. With some of the bands, you have people constructing their own gadgets, generating their own noises on the spot. Not some keyboards doing synths and samples over what is essentially heavy metal (recent Ministry anyone?)

So…Slipknot is industrial?