but the universe, the planets, and life didn’t just all of a sudden appear out of nothing.
Perhaps there is no such thing as nothing.
I think what amlux was saying is it makes far more sense to believe in something that has at least a realm of possibilty behind it than to blindly follow the supernatural given .
Late,
grmpysmrf
peligro pretty much said a longer version of something along the lines of what I was trying to say. basically: those that are opposites, are exactly the same.
I think senor smurf’s thread is appropriate now. And if any of you think the music Ministry created is besides the point of religion, I got news for you. Those guys grew up in places where religion worked for most. I am speaking of Paul and Al.
Making up stuff and then believing it is what created religion. It’s basically a cop out… a way of saying, I have no idea, so I’ll just believe the closest thing that makes sense to me and go with it.
Wait…are you agreeing or disagreeing with me. Because I’m agreeing with you. What’s more logical: An all powerful deity creates the universe by blinking or gesturing with a finger (and thus creates man so that man may enjoy the whole damn schmozzle thus concreting the belief that man is the centre of the universe) or that the birth of our universe was the result of the death of another?
See?
here’s a bit of chapter 2 of the Tao Te Ching, I think it is along the lines of what Peligro was saying…or not. he made it sound much easier than this excerpt:
All in the world recognize the beautiful as beautiful.
Herein lies ugliness.
All recognize the good as good.
Herein lies evil.
Therefore
Being and non-being produce each other.
Difficulty and ease bring about each other.
Long and short delimit each other.
High and low rest on each other.
Front and back follow each other.
So, if you wake up in the morning and your car has been waxed does it make more sense to believe that some universe energy force made it shiny or that your neighbor might have waxed your car for you?
I’m not sure if this is really the greatest of analogies since the car had already been established.
I think senor smurf’s thread is appropriate now. And if any of you think the music Ministry created is besides the point of religion, I got news for you. Those guys grew up in places where religion worked for most. I am speaking of Paul and Al.
Thanks Gerda!
just wondering… “those guys grew up where religion worked for most” does that mean they respect it or what? cause some of the earlier ministry lyrics are pretty much not respect.
Late,
grmpysmrf
just wondering… “those guys grew up where religion worked for most” does that mean they respect it or what? cause some of the earlier ministry lyrics are pretty much not respect.
Late,
grmpysmrf
I’ve never met Paul, but I had a good (and sober) long time discussing a number of matters with Al on his tour bus back in '04. His daughter had come along as well and at some point religion, or specifically, his family’s religious background, popped into the conversation. He was very “respectful” of it and was acknowledging what he felt were the positive aspects to it and noted some cross necklace that his grandmother had given him that was very dear to him.
Now, reading into many of his lyrics (“Psalm 69”, “Waiting”, “Stigmata”, etc.) he doesn’t exactly come across as “religion-friendly”. But, with all the Aleister Crowley and/or lizard people stuff that he seems to be interested in he also certainly doesn’t come across as one of those pure atheists that deny any supernatural existence in our universe.
We didn’t discuss his personal philosophies or anything, though.
Also (I’m not saying this is necessarily the case with Al) it is possible for people to have strong “faith” (whether it be in Jesus, or God, or whatever) yes still hate religion (either specific ones or religion in general).
Ironically, the mysteries of life (or at least some of them) are only solved when we die.
Ironically, the mysteries of life (or at least some of them) are only solved when we die.
That suggests a consciencess after we die which can’t be possible because the thing that gives you that conscienceness is rotting in the ground or burnt in the oven for those of us who wish to be cremated. Presumeably your “going to” the same place you were before you were born how come you weren’t conscience then?
Late,
grmpysmrf
I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here. I’m only saying that if you think you have it figured out, you are wrong.
I like this! ^ I’m not saying I’m right either except for the sake of the argument here. In real life I have no idea but as, I believe, you said, if heaven is filled with church goers, I’ll pass!
Late,
grmpysmrf
[reply]Ironically, the mysteries of life (or at least some of them) are only solved when we die.
That suggests a consciencess after we die which can’t be possible because the thing that gives you that conscienceness is rotting in the ground or burnt in the oven for those of us who wish to be cremated. Presumeably your “going to” the same place you were before you were born how come you weren’t conscience then?
Late,
grmpysmrf[/reply]
Not really disagreeing, but how do you know you weren’t conscious before you were born? Because you can’t remember it? I’m sure you were a baby/toddler once, even though you can’t remember it.
Not really disagreeing, but how do you know you weren’t conscious before you were born? Because you can’t remember it? I’m sure you were a baby/toddler once, even though you can’t remember it.
I get what yer saying, but I guess the point is what good is conscienceness if you can’t remember it?is it even really consciesness with out some level od rememberance/recall?
Late,
grmpysmrf
Negative 500 points for the first schmuck that mentions the Matrix.
Negative 500 points for the first schmuck that mentions the Matrix.
That would be you.[black]…[/black]^
Late,
grmpysmrf
The meaning of life is to have as much fun as you possibly can while you are here - even if it is to be at the expense of others.
Ergo - I fulfill that meaning.
I’ll bet you’d find out what Al really feels about when you have a not-sober conversation with him.
The meaning of life is to have as much fun as you possibly can while you are here - even if it is to be at the expense of others.
Ergo - I fulfill that meaning.
you FAIL, loser!
This thread has dick-all to do with the meaning of life. Go sniff some more coke off your rented girlfriend’s (who puts out on the first date) tits.
Here’s a pro tip: so you at least have a clue. when you rent them, they’re supposed put out on all dates, not just the first one. You’re not special sparky, unless we’re talking the little bus riding, helmet wearer.
Late,
grmpysmrf
[reply]Negative 500 points for the first schmuck that mentions the Matrix.
That would be you.[black]…[/black]^
Late,
grmpysmrf[/reply]
Yeah, I knew someone would point that out.
Both Paul and Al grew up Catholic. And oddly enough in Latin countries. Al, (if it’s true) Cuba, and Paul spent the first couple of years of his life in Mexico. (he WAS born in Palo Alto California)
There is an argument to be made that the early times shape your vision and your morality.
i think it’s pointless to argue about what shaped an artist’s view without broaching the subject of religion. it’s like saying you didn’t look out the window and see gunfire.
My pops’ family tried to raise me Catholic. After the split, my Ma tried to raise me Methodist. Then when I moved back to the desert, the folks I was staying with made me feel like shit for not being a terribly pious soul. Then just when I went through some hard times upstairs and found something I could at least try to believe in, my pops kinda morphed into this anti-religion nutcase.
So I dunno, and personally, I’m too confused to give a fuck. I’m trying to sort out my own nonsense first.
[angelic]
THAT SAID…
This comes pretty damned close to explaining everything.