YaY for gay people

Discussion
110

Grmpy -

Since we are getting more and more into an unrelated topic here (what role government really should play in civic life, if any), I might propose we move our debate to another thread. It will spiral out of control quickly if it stays here. And I’m being rude by making a discussion parallel to Mooney’s.

You asked about where authority comes from though, and to that all I can do is echo the old CRASS slogan: [url https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LQ1CvwF7BQ]“there is no authority but yourself.”

Idealistic? Impossible? Insane? Maybe. But I still feel the sanest society would be the one where there is as much self-reliance / self-sufficiency as possible, and as little delegation of one’s own skills to any governing body or corporate taskmaster. As it stands now, we have the worst of all possible worlds for people who dream about this kind of thing, but who can say that this state of things will last forever. If the marriage equality issue shows us anything, people’s attitudes can change very quickly within a single generation, and can enable things that were once deemed socially impossible.

You have a point. It depends on where you live. Specifically, how remote it is.

I’m old. 40+ I remember back in the day when we didn’t have all these shitty laws on the books. You know, the days when people were responsible, accountable, and had authority over their own lives and didn’t try to work the system because they believed in ethics, loyalty integrity, trust, and honesty. They didn’t try to steal things from others because they worked for them and were paid a decent wage that allowed them to afford to live or they could self-sustain by bartering with their neighbors. They didn’t need the government to tell them what to do or how to do it because they were willing to take the time to think on their own to solve their problems.

We had a garden that we grew stuff in and processed it for the winter. We would buy a side of beef, a pig, or chickens from a local farmer instead of buying it in the grocery store. We would go hunting for deer, duck, and geese. If someone needed help, we would help them.

Why can’t people be responsible and do the right thing for the greater good of everyone instead of being so self-centered? We are all in this together. Utopia.

Oh right, then there is greed and my religion is better than your religion.

111

None of this would be happening now if it weren’t for 9/11.

9/11 changed everything.

[:|]

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Why can’t people be responsible and do the right thing for the greater good of everyone instead of being so self-centered? We are all in this together. Utopia.

Oh right, then there is greed and my religion is better than your religion.

The so-called “primitivist” or “anti-civilization” anarchists (see for example John Zerzan) feel that, the closer we get to a traditional hunter-gatherer mode of living, the more we’d return to a less exploitative society. He points to animal domestication and agriculture as “the greatest mistake made by the human species,” and the point where standing armies, slave labor, etc. first reared their ugly heads.

Yet if we chucked all of our technology and civilization out the window, I still think there’d be an innate need by humans to compete over who has the ‘best’ beliefs, and there would still be greed, envy, etc. So who really knows what the solution is to these issues. I don’t know if there is an ‘ultimate’ solution; and so for now the task at hand is simply to minimize these qualities as much as possible.

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[reply]
Why can’t people be responsible and do the right thing for the greater good of everyone instead of being so self-centered? We are all in this together. Utopia.

Oh right, then there is greed and my religion is better than your religion.

The so-called “primitivist” or “anti-civilization” anarchists (see for example John Zerzan) feel that, the closer we get to a traditional hunter-gatherer mode of living, the more we’d return to a less exploitative society. He points to animal domestication and agriculture as “the greatest mistake made by the human species,” and the point where standing armies, slave labor, etc. first reared their ugly heads.

Yet if we chucked all of our technology and civilization out the window, I still think there’d be an innate need by humans to compete over who has the ‘best’ beliefs, and there would still be greed, envy, etc. So who really knows what the solution is to these issues. I don’t know if there is an ‘ultimate’ solution; and so for now the task at hand is simply to minimize these qualities as much as possible.[/reply]

I am familiar with the concept because I read books sometimes.

You do not need religion to have good morals. The laws of physics do not stop working just because someone doesn’t understand them. And they never go on holiday.

Many years ago, I was in a class at work with about 30 people. The instructor asked each of us what was our greatest fear that would be a threat to society as we know it. The responses were quite interesting. Oddly enough, I had the same fear as the instructor, Soylent Green. Today, I may change my answer to state religion.

My solution has always been: either lead, follow, or get the fuck out of my way. I am a person who get’s shit done. You want a change, make the change. Build your own self-sustaining compound. Make a plan. Devise a solution to take you to the finish line.

114

I love Tomasz, but he quoted CRASS so now I’m mailing him a box of Ebola.

115

I love Tomasz, but he quoted CRASS so now I’m mailing him a box of Ebola.

Not those sugar free Gummi Bears you mentioned earlier? Those sound like they might actually be more deadly.

Crass had their share of sanctimonious and puritanical moments, to be sure. But they apparently walked the walk with respect to what they said, and I can at least respect that in a world full of internet sock puppets, and “slacktivists” who think that “liking” a Facebook post will help to rock the foundations of the System ™.

And as far as the whole “anger is an energy” punk ethos goes, I have to admit they had enough heavily accented anger to power a couple of cities (quote: “An’ whaddif Oi tauwld yew tah FAH KOFF!!!”). It was exciting to witness whether you could pass their test for personal righteousness or not. I saw Steve Ignorant perform in a leg brace once and he was more animated, intense and engaged than just about any other live act I saw within that particular span of a few years.

116

I blame all of this crap on the liberals. Republicans don’t put up with this nonsense.

A lot of skinny women think they are fat and go to extreme measures to do something about it. Is that them just born thinking they are a fat woman trapped in a skinny woman’s body? What’s the difference? Why is it not cool for them to go throw up after they eat but it is cool for someone to have their adams apple scraped?

I am going to suggest that you research eating disorders then research transgender, and I’m not talking Wikipedia research. Please report back with your findings.

117

Grmpy -

Since we are getting more and more into an unrelated topic here (what role government really should play in civic life, if any),

It’s not an unrelated topic. It appears to be the crux of your argument. Which, according to you, is the reason gay people need to wait around for the discrimination to stop.

You asked about where authority comes from though, and to that all I can do is echo the old CRASS slogan: [url https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LQ1CvwF7BQ]“there is no authority but yourself.”

That would be nice if people were actually responsible. Other than that, it’s as you said, idealistic. So, not really an answer.

I still feel the sanest society would be the one where there is as much self-reliance / self-sufficiency as possible, and as little delegation of one’s own skills to any governing body or corporate taskmaster.

Well no kidding. That would be ideal for sure, but that’s not how things actually work and so a government is needed to keep others from being exploited, discriminated and all other fucked up things that destroy a society.

As it stands now, we have the worst of all possible worlds for people who dream about this kind of thing, but who can say that this state of things will last forever.

you said it, “dream about this kind of thing.” It’s a dream and an unattainable one as long as discrimination is still around and discrimination ain’t going anywhere. You’re right, it may (I doubt it) change over time on its own but that time ain’t now or any time soon.

If the marriage equality issue shows us anything, people’s attitudes can change very quickly within a single generation, and can enable things that were once deemed socially impossible.

“Attitudes quickly changing” is not as solid or as permenent as legal precedent

118

[reply]
Why can’t people be responsible and do the right thing for the greater good of everyone instead of being so self-centered? We are all in this together. Utopia.

Oh right, then there is greed and my religion is better than your religion.

The so-called “primitivist” or “anti-civilization” anarchists (see for example John Zerzan) feel that, the closer we get to a traditional hunter-gatherer mode of living, the more we’d return to a less exploitative society. He points to animal domestication and agriculture as “the greatest mistake made by the human species,” and the point where standing armies, slave labor, etc. first reared their ugly heads.

Yet if we chucked all of our technology and civilization out the window, I still think there’d be an innate need by humans to compete over who has the ‘best’ beliefs, and there would still be greed, envy, etc. So who really knows what the solution is to these issues. I don’t know if there is an ‘ultimate’ solution; and so for now the task at hand is simply to minimize these qualities as much as possible.[/reply]
So, you realize greed, envy, exploitation still exist but want to do nothing about it, cause SCOTUS was out of line? It would seem SCOTUS’s attempt to “minimize these qualities” has been met with your stink eye even though you call for minimization of these qualities. How do you suggest the society minimize these qualities ?

119

I love Tomasz, but he quoted CRASS so now I’m mailing him a box of Ebola.

I like Tomasz too but it would appear he hasn’t really thought this thing through.

120

The instructor asked each of us what was our greatest fear that would be a threat to society as we know it… I may change my answer to state religion.

Could probably drop the “state” part in your new answer.

“What has happened is that five lawyers have imposed their personal view of what the definition of marriage should be on the rest of us.” [And that’s not fair because that’s what one lone Christian jesus freak county clerk should be doing] -Kim Davis
Update!! Kim Davis is being sued http://news.yahoo.com/kentucky-clerk-sued-not-issuing-gay-marriage-licenses-214105523.html

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[reply] The instructor asked each of us what was our greatest fear that would be a threat to society as we know it… I may change my answer to state religion.

Could probably drop the “state” part in your new answer[/reply]

True. Now where did I leave my red pen?
Ah. I see where it went. Up smrfys arse.

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[reply][reply] The instructor asked each of us what was our greatest fear that would be a threat to society as we know it… I may change my answer to state religion.

Could probably drop the “state” part in your new answer[/reply]

True. Now where did I leave my red pen?
Ah. I see where it went. Up smrfys arse.[/reply]
I keep my pens on my desk in a Slash mug. And nobody uses red anymore.

123

[reply][reply][reply] The instructor asked each of us what was our greatest fear that would be a threat to society as we know it… I may change my answer to state religion.

Could probably drop the “state” part in your new answer[/reply]

True. Now where did I leave my red pen?
Ah. I see where it went. Up smrfys arse.[/reply]
I keep my pens on my desk in a Slash mug. And nobody uses red anymore.[/reply]

So what color you want then? Green, blue, purple, or black?

124

[reply][reply][reply][reply] The instructor asked each of us what was our greatest fear that would be a threat to society as we know it… I may change my answer to state religion.

Could probably drop the “state” part in your new answer[/reply]

True. Now where did I leave my red pen?
Ah. I see where it went. Up smrfys arse.[/reply]
I keep my pens on my desk in a Slash mug. And nobody uses red anymore.[/reply]

So what color you want then? Green, blue, purple, or black?[/reply]
You were the one that wanted a pen, you pick.

125

[reply][reply][reply][reply][reply] The instructor asked each of us what was our greatest fear that would be a threat to society as we know it… I may change my answer to state religion.

Could probably drop the “state” part in your new answer[/reply]

True. Now where did I leave my red pen?
Ah. I see where it went. Up smrfys arse.[/reply]
I keep my pens on my desk in a Slash mug. And nobody uses red anymore.[/reply]

So what color you want then? Green, blue, purple, or black?[/reply]
You were the one that wanted a pen, you pick.[/reply]

I can’t decide on just one so your getting stuffed with all of them.

126

[reply][reply][reply][reply][reply][reply] The instructor asked each of us what was our greatest fear that would be a threat to society as we know it… I may change my answer to state religion.

Could probably drop the “state” part in your new answer[/reply]

True. Now where did I leave my red pen?
Ah. I see where it went. Up smrfys arse.[/reply]
I keep my pens on my desk in a Slash mug. And nobody uses red anymore.[/reply]

So what color you want then? Green, blue, purple, or black?[/reply]
You were the one that wanted a pen, you pick.[/reply]

I can’t decide on just one so your getting stuffed with all of them.[/reply]
Please don’t stuff me. [:|]

128

Eating disorders are bad.
But so is cramming colored markers up your ass.

129

[reply][reply][reply][reply][reply][reply][reply] The instructor asked each of us what was our greatest fear that would be a threat to society as we know it… I may change my answer to state religion.

Could probably drop the “state” part in your new answer[/reply]

True. Now where did I leave my red pen?
Ah. I see where it went. Up smrfys arse.[/reply]
I keep my pens on my desk in a Slash mug. And nobody uses red anymore.[/reply]

So what color you want then? Green, blue, purple, or black?[/reply]
You were the one that wanted a pen, you pick.[/reply]

I can’t decide on just one so your getting stuffed with all of them.[/reply]
Please don’t stuff me. [:|][/reply]

All in due fun. I was picking on you for correcting my extra word. Last time, it was my misspelling of tongs. Remember? [:P]

130

[reply][reply]I blame all of this crap on the liberals. Republicans don’t put up with this nonsense.

A lot of skinny women think they are fat and go to extreme measures to do something about it. Is that them just born thinking they are a fat woman trapped in a skinny woman’s body? What’s the difference? Why is it not cool for them to go throw up after they eat but it is cool for someone to have their adams apple scraped?

I am going to suggest that you research eating disorders then research transgender, and I’m not talking Wikipedia research. Please report back with your findings.[/reply]

I am not going to perform research or write a book report for you. However, I could certainly tell you what it is like to live with someone with an eating disorder if I wanted to.[/reply]

Then why are you comparing the two?
Just because you observe her eating disorder and the effects that it has on her does not mean that you understand the fundamental medical pathology behind it or the full consequences of letting it continue without treatment.
Has she received professional help? If she hasn’t, she needs to get treated for it ASAP. If you don’t get her help, you are enabling her by inaction.
http://www.cosmopolitan.com/health-fitness/news/a42822/rachael-farrokh-anorexia-treatment/
Lack of vitamin and mineral content in the body can easily kill her.
I just went through 8-weeks of IV iron infusion myself because my body had depleted just about all of my iron and folic acid (and not because I didn’t eat). Yeah, those two things are needed to carry oxygen to your brain.