Why The Barker Loathing?

Discussion
21

In regard to Rieflin…he was with Ministry for Land, Mind, Psalm, and just about every side project. I don’t think you can consisntently work with someone so much and say they have nothing to do with your sound. He definately was part of the band far as I’m concerned.

Further, what can be noted of Ministry is that we have Twitch, which introduces a fairly radical change in sound…in the linear notes of Twitch we also have a thanks towards the Cocks crew (so we know some sort of association had began). The next Minstry album is an EVEN MORE radical change in sound, and it just so happens, that all the sudden part of the Cocks crew working with Al at this juncture.
Couple new themes happen to creep in with the Cocks crew as well, most notably occult themes (G.D. anyone). Oddly though, the little I’ve seen of Al speaking of that subject area, he doesn’t seem to know much and nor does he claim to. So who was it that was feeding this stuff in?
My logical conclusion would be Paul.

I would also assume that at least one of them had at least aan above surface level interest in that area simply due to the fact that you had an EXTREMELY rare recording of Aliester Crowley performing one of the Aethyrs in G.D. Sure, it’s possible that they could have somehow just stumbled across such a thing, but given the rarity of the recording (espically at the time of LORAH), I seriously doubt this…in all probablity someone had sought it out, and again, given Al’s statments, I don’t think it was him. (then of course, Paul’s solo project gave a nod towards Alchemy with the name Lead into Gold).

So Faith Collapsing, Cannibal Song, Psalm 69, etc. I’d say these things alone all spell in all probability Cocks (read that Paul and/or Rieflin) influence. This is not to count out Chris’s contributions.

Now I’m not venturing to say that Al was nothing without these people, merely that I think they definately contributed something to the sound and direction of Ministry, and that Ministry would have never been without Ministry without them. Al, Paul, Rieflin, etc., all were important parts to the Ministry sound (at least that would be my suspiscion). Add them all together, and you got something special…

Oddly, I have to admit, I’ve loved the majority of what I’ve heard from former Ministry people. LOVE Connley’s material, Rieflin I think is great, and Anvil I thought was great as well. What I think is odd is people may say that these other projects sound nothing like Ministry, and I suppose on the surface level they don’t. But, if you count in that when all these people were together Ministry had a sound that was “different” from what else was out there, I think what can be seen from the other projects is there is a certain “unique” quality they tend to maintain, AND THERE IN lies the Ministry tie. I think the others continued to explore, where Al calmed down in his explorations…and I think it can be seen that the urge the other felt and continue to feel to explore new areas rather than remain in travelled territory helped make Ministry what it was.

Going back to what Barker said about leaving Ministry, part of the reason he left is he felt the project had nowhere else to go. And after leaving Ministry, he churn out Pink Anvil…something that just happened to return to a pretty experimental direction.

22

Going back to what Barker said about leaving Ministry, part of the reason he left is he felt the project had nowhere else to go. And after leaving Ministry, he churn out Pink Anvil…something that just happened to return to a pretty experimental direction.

Interesting speculation on a lot of the occult themes, etc. I do agree that Barker, Rieflin etc. were the ones keeping Ministry interesting and innovative and that without them it’s a very “safe” band indeed. Ditto with the speculation on occult themes…

As for Pink Anvil, however, I’m pretty sure it was released around the Animositisomina era when Paul was still in the band. The performances for ‘Halloween Party’ that would later become the album were done at a time that Ministry were on a brief hiatus. You should go back and read that Max Brody interview…

…Still I do agree that Pink Anvil’s bizarreness was evidence of Paul’s desire to experiment outside of Ministry’s tried “industrial metal” parameters.

23

and I get the impression that this guy is trolling Peligro. He should back the fuck down.

OR what? hes gonna come through my connection and slap me? who is scared of the written word? IT’s safe to talk shit because nobody knows where you are…why do you think HE does it? no accountability! I gaurantee you this guy keeps his smart ass attack comments to himself in real life. but on the internet he’s a “macho bad ass” cause there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY. I just did it back cause I don’t think I’vce ever seen anybody serve his petty shit back to him. I must say I don’t get the thrill out of it that I imagine he gets.
Late,
grmpysmrf

24

In regard to Rieflin…he was with Ministry for Land, Mind, Psalm, and just about every side project. I don’t think you can consisntently work with someone so much and say they have nothing to do with your sound. He definately was part of the band far as I’m concerned.

Further, what can be noted of Ministry is that we have Twitch, which introduces a fairly radical change in sound…in the linear notes of Twitch we also have a thanks towards the Cocks crew (so we know some sort of association had began). The next Minstry album is an EVEN MORE radical change in sound, and it just so happens, that all the sudden part of the Cocks crew working with Al at this juncture.
Couple new themes happen to creep in with the Cocks crew as well, most notably occult themes (G.D. anyone). Oddly though, the little I’ve seen of Al speaking of that subject area, he doesn’t seem to know much and nor does he claim to. So who was it that was feeding this stuff in?
My logical conclusion would be Paul.

I would also assume that at least one of them had at least aan above surface level interest in that area simply due to the fact that you had an EXTREMELY rare recording of Aliester Crowley performing one of the Aethyrs in G.D. Sure, it’s possible that they could have somehow just stumbled across such a thing, but given the rarity of the recording (espically at the time of LORAH), I seriously doubt this…in all probablity someone had sought it out, and again, given Al’s statments, I don’t think it was him. (then of course, Paul’s solo project gave a nod towards Alchemy with the name Lead into Gold).

So Faith Collapsing, Cannibal Song, Psalm 69, etc. I’d say these things alone all spell in all probability Cocks (read that Paul and/or Rieflin) influence. This is not to count out Chris’s contributions.

Now I’m not venturing to say that Al was nothing without these people, merely that I think they definately contributed something to the sound and direction of Ministry, and that Ministry would have never been without Ministry without them. Al, Paul, Rieflin, etc., all were important parts to the Ministry sound (at least that would be my suspiscion). Add them all together, and you got something special…

Oddly, I have to admit, I’ve loved the majority of what I’ve heard from former Ministry people. LOVE Connley’s material, Rieflin I think is great, and Anvil I thought was great as well. What I think is odd is people may say that these other projects sound nothing like Ministry, and I suppose on the surface level they don’t. But, if you count in that when all these people were together Ministry had a sound that was “different” from what else was out there, I think what can be seen from the other projects is there is a certain “unique” quality they tend to maintain, AND THERE IN lies the Ministry tie. I think the others continued to explore, where Al calmed down in his explorations…and I think it can be seen that the urge the other felt and continue to feel to explore new areas rather than remain in travelled territory helped make Ministry what it was.

Going back to what Barker said about leaving Ministry, part of the reason he left is he felt the project had nowhere else to go. And after leaving Ministry, he churn out Pink Anvil…something that just happened to return to a pretty experimental direction.

great fucking post man

i agree with you. alot of my favorite ministry songs were barker songs, and i love lead into gold. it does seem that as of late there is no experimentaion left with ministry. i would even possibly go as far as to say that there isn’t much industiral left in ministry nowadays.

i love shit like cannibal song, vex & siolence, 10/10, etc. too bad there’s none of it left.

don’t get me wrong, i still love the new record, but it’s scratching my metal itch now, not my industrial itch.

25

I dunno about the occult deal, I remember reading an interview with Al back in Mind or Psalm days where he spoke about spending time in some sort of “youth recovery center” and one of the guys who ran the place had great taste in music, drugs and Crowley. I also recall Al mentioning “Book of Lies” in regards to why to Psalm’s real title was what it was ([keagkl] or whatever), so I suspect the man was and may still be “hip” to the occult scene.

I think there’s a general conception that all smart things related to Ministry must be attributable to Paul and all dumb to Al, but I suspect that is simplifying things quite a bit. Al was good buddies with Leary, spent time with Burroughs, has pretty amazing taste in classic industrial stuff, just because he talks like a drunken biker doesn’t mean he’s got shit taste.

That said, I really dug Lead Into Gold and Pink Anvil and hope to hell Paul releases more material soon. I think the pair of them have a boatload of talent and taste.

Finally, the fact Al has lots more bad to say about Paul than Paul about Al may have something to do with the fact that no one has interviewed Paul for the past few years. No interviews means lack of product and not necessarily lack of rude things to say.

26

I’m not entirely sure if it was Paul or not who brought in the Aleister Crowley stuff to Ministry, it’s quite possible but the times that I’ve seen Al speak about Crowley would indicate he was reasonably familiar with his writings. Although he might have just been dabbling, Golden Dawn is one of Ministry’s finest tunes and is sorely missing from the live setting. Having been a fan since Twitch came out I’ve watched the band transform through many permutations, and it’s a shame to see Al putting down Paul so much he was definitely Mr. Spock to Al’s Captain Kirk.

27

[reply]
Going back to what Barker said about leaving Ministry, part of the reason he left is he felt the project had nowhere else to go. And after leaving Ministry, he churn out Pink Anvil…something that just happened to return to a pretty experimental direction.

As for Pink Anvil, however, I’m pretty sure it was released around the Animositisomina era when Paul was still in the band. The performances for ‘Halloween Party’ that would later become the album were done at a time that Ministry were on a brief hiatus. You should go back and read that Max Brody interview…[/reply]

I can confirm that all the Pink Anvil stuff was already done before Paul left Ministry. I did an interview with him 3-4 months before he left the band and he told me already about a second Pink Anvil release that was planned (the New Year’s Eve show). We are still waiting…
By the way, the final decision to leave was made after his dad passed away…

28

Regarding the Crowley samples on Golden Dawn: I’ve always suspected that Uncle Al got hold of the ‘Current 93 Presents: The Hastings Archive’ LP containing the rare Crowley wax cylinder recordings. It came out around 1986, prior to the release of LOTRAH, so it would make sense. And given that WaxTrax! surely would have carried all of the Current 93 vinyl back then, I’ll bet Al grabbed a copy there.

That’s my theory, anyway.

–SKot

29

Regarding the Crowley samples on Golden Dawn: I’ve always suspected that Uncle Al got hold of the ‘Current 93 Presents: The Hastings Archive’ LP containing the rare Crowley wax cylinder recordings. It came out around 1986, prior to the release of LOTRAH, so it would make sense. And given that WaxTrax! surely would have carried all of the Current 93 vinyl back then, I’ll bet Al grabbed a copy there.

That’s my theory, anyway.

–SKot

That’s a pretty good theory! How often have those recordings been available prior to cassette recordings/? I know they’re pretty common now and became increasingly common once cassettes came into play (the OTO, for all their failings, are usually up with the time technologically), but up until then how easy or hard were they to find? I’d think there’d have been a release in the late 60s, around “Peppers” time when Crowley started becoming more accepted among youth culture.

I suppose I could search around a bit to find out, but if anyone here already knows, it’d save me the time.