I think a lot of what you say here makes a lot of sense. The crazyness was a huge selling point. And when the other members left, Al kept the recognizable ministry brand name as well as the recognizable crazy-man persona. And the other members do all say that Al had charisma and could be really funny and charming. I think you hit it on the head with this. He also (as the others all say) had a good pop-sensibility that was crucial. I remember reading an interview with Rey Washam where he was asked about Al’s claim to have written 100% of Houses, and Rey said that Al got the band to jam together and picked ideas from people: he said that Al had a great ear for picking things and combining things, and that he did write to, but that the “I wrote every note of that” claim was way off base. He also said Al was always really good at surrounding himself with good people who could produce good ideas for him to pick from. I guess if Al defines creating the music as making the decisions, then that’s one thing (the other members all say that Al had the final say), but the claim to have written it all is another thing.
But I have to disagree with you on Flowering Blight. I really like the vocals. I’ve always liked vocalists who stray from the norm and have something unusual about them. I agree the vocals are nasal, but I like em. I listen to that disc a lot. I actually would have suspected you would be more into them (you generally seem to be into more left-field sorts of things).
USSA is another issue. I like the music a lot (I’m a big fan of the Jesus Lizard and that kind of bumpy noisy rock) - it’s the singer there that just puts me off. It’s like he’s taken singing lessons and taken them too much to heart or something. In fact, for me it’s the exact opposite of what I like about Paul’s vocals - Paul’s vocals are different and nicely grating whereas the USSA guy’s vocals are generic.
As for taking the bush trilogy over Paul’s later work… I’ve got to disagree with you there. Gunnar summed up my feelings on nu-ministry pretty well (as he did my feelings on using the size of one’s house as a measure of artistic success… if that’s what we measure artistic achievement by then yes, Bon Jovi and Michael Bolton are the greatest artists ever).
And Blackouts is pretty awesome, and that was before Al. He might not have had as lucrative a career if he had not met Al, but he was already involved in some pretty awesome music before him.
I like Flower Blight a lot. It has that awesome sound from my favorite Ministry period Filth Pig - Animositisomina and also has better versions of the some of the Pink Anvil songs.
It’s just the vocals get annoying. Maybe a track or two is ok but he sings the same exact way through the entire album with very minimal vocal effects, nothing to change it up.
I’ll have to give it another listen, I remember loving it at first then thinking it didn’t hold up to repeat listens because of the vocals.
Yeah I’m with you Bill needs more credit hell even if you read old interviews Al praises bill for his talents (gtr/drms/keys) at one point after rape and honey bill left to drum for the Chinese orchestra. As far as i know al’s never spoke ill of bill
I guess the vocals aren’t everyone’s cup of tea. I’ll be the first to admit I have odd tastes. I like how grating they are - they get into your ear and irritate it. I’ve always really liked vocals that stray from the norm and I’ve always kind of liked sounds that irritate the ear in general.
Cue amusing anecdote from the past:
I remember listening to Useless on my first spin of Filth Pig when it came out and thinking “that’s an awesome voice Al is putting on” (thinking he was doing something that I had always liked about Bowie, which is using a whole host of different voices (something I imitated early in Dumbass’ career in the 90’s)). Then a year or so later I picked up Lead into Gold and realized that it was Paul.
Yes, there’s a kernel of truth in what Void says: without Al, Paul, Chris (and possibly Bill, but something tells me less so) may not have become as big as they did, so therefore one could expect to be grateful of Al in that respect. But it certainly was not a one way street; without Paul, Chris, and Bill (and several others) Al would not have become as big as he did either. He needed them just as much as they benefited from his alliance. I know it’s different now but Al’s ability to gather other “notable” musicians in the past few years is arguably because of Ministry’s name, not because he’s this great nexus. And he hasn’t been able to pull off anything half decent (with mild exception to some parts of HOTM) since Paul, Chris, and Bill (and Reynolds) were gone.
Just on another point: remember on HOTM it had clues to Paul’s absence? The backwards “PAUL IS NOT WITH US” on the inside of the CD case, Paul’s vox on the secret song. In 2004 there wasn’t strong animosity from Al towards Paul. Al may have been genuinely missing his input but at the same rate was happy to be trying something new. But then he turned into a very bad drunk and became a total ass towards him, and this I think could be secretly or subconsciously down to the fact that without Paul, Al knows Ministry could never be the same again. It could only be the butt rock from there on in so he just went with it and acts as if that’s what he wanted all along. He’s guaranteed a fan base with butt rock (“Hey kids, this Uncle J. here!”) and getting a grammy nomination which he probably thought would be better for when he’s in a wheelchair and has lost the control of his bowels that he might be able to pay for nurse.
Also I listened to Flowering Blight there the other day for a first time in a while; it’s a decent record with interesting sounds but the drums sounds far too quashed most of the time and the vox on some tracks would have benefited from another take. They were too clean or something. His vox on ‘Stolen’ were cool because they were slightly muffled and he gave a proper roar on parts of that song.
But back to original point, Al enabled notoriety for The Book Club but he needed them just as much they benefited from him. And the insults he flings around now can do him absolutely no favours. No one telling him his shit stinks makes it worse (he should have never fucked Patty around)
Sometimes a group of extremely talented sidemen just need a leader type to bang them into shape, even if that leader is an obnoxious dickhead. See also Marilyn Manson - not one ex-member of Manson’s band has had a successful solo career (though John 5 and Twiggy did OK by joining other people’s bands). But by the same token, Manson’s not exactly making stellar music without some of the guys he used to work with.
Or, for an analogy from another medium, The Empire Strikes Back would’ve sucked hard if Lucas had tried to make it with the crew of yes-men he used for the prequels. But Lawrence Kasdan and Gary Kurtz and Ralph Macquarrie couldn’t possibly have made the film without George Lucas either.
the idea that angie replaced paul is stupid. paul left because he was tired of al’s addiction. paul wasn’t al’s babysitter. al always had plenty of airheads around him to help clean up.and presumably he still does.the other musicians who contributed to this record are doing just fine professionally and personally. not one of them is as bitter and without a clue as to the future as the self proclaimed majordomo. the past is the past. as an artist you move forward and take a stab at the future. (without a syringe and needle).
What revco and the others said. Something had to have happened for Paul to just say “alright, i’m done”. What was his breaking point? He outlasted the other guys by a wide margin. Al gets clean and probably far more controlling. Surprised he stuck around for as long as he did.
The switch from [font “Arial Black”][white][size 2]MINISTRY[/size][/white][/font] Ministry to Fuck Bush Ministry was very sudden; it’s probable that Al hinted at this new direction for the band in 2003, Paul wanted none of it, was growing tired of the experience and called it before it came to blows or was “asked” to leave. I remember Paul mentioning his dad’s death as a perspective changing experience; while this wouldn’t cause a departure, it could certainly contribute to the decision making process.
We might be expecting some hidden “event” that caused the split. Might be looking down a void with that one.
Wasn’t Ministry unofficially “broken up” until Spielberg got them to do “What About Us?” (since Kubrick had wanted them for A.I. initially) and they decided to have another go at it?
Don’t know about the “broken up” bit, maybe on hiatus for a bit. Also there wasn’t a huge amount of time between Clitour and A.I. That movie was filmed late-summer & fall of '00. Greatest Fits was out in June '01 if I remember right
[reply]Amlux, when you wrote what you did, I had this image of a disenfranchised 15 year old tearing his favourite rock band’s poster down his room in tears once he discovered the singer did drugs or some shit.
'sif you’d tear down a poster just coz Al’s a douche. Sheesh.
Thanks, fuck-o. I’ll remember to ask permission in future before I attempt any such buffoonary.
Mom says hi.[/reply]
Perhaps his description sounded a bit juvenile or something, but I understand where Amlux is coming from. We choose to wear t-shirts, put stickers on our cars, or put up posters often, not just because we liked a couple songs, but because there is some respect for the artist(s) and because we feel a kinship due to either an admiration for or a sharing of that artist’s integrity or values.
I don’t put up posters anymore, but if I had a Ministry poster there would be a certain level of disappointment and disgust that I would feel each time I looked at it now, even though I might still think back on those times or tunes with great fondness.
I still have a Psalm69 T-shirt, but I’ve not worn it in a long time. It’s no longer really a “team” that I’m passionate about showing support for.
It’s kind of also like if there was some girl that broke your heart. She was hot. She was fun. You had some great times together. But she turned out to be a heartless bitch who stole $10,000 from you, screwed your best friend, and went on to be a porn actress . . . . you probably won’t want to keep the picture of her on your wall.
i have known alejandro longer than i have known my own husband. and francis nardieillo and i have joked about this.yeah. that’s 30 fucking years.i wish al weren’t such a clown. but he is.and he can’t help himself.